Non-Credit Sub-Committee Meeting Minutes & Discussions - Fall 2018

Sub-Committee Meetings

Meeting DateNotes

10.26.18 Workgroup meeting

The proposal to add the new "Course Credit Status" question to the Enrollment page, asking students to "self-identify" their course credit status (credit vs. non-credit) was DECLINED by the committee 

After presenting the proposal (see full copy of the proposal here: /wiki/spaces/PD/pages/808648705 - the subcommittee heard feedback from the participants.  

First, Omid and the Workgroup approved the proposal and we were discussing options for the question language and additional requirements, then Tim Calhoon suggested an alternative iterative solution to  implement the "path" of questions and residency status changes, etc. via a separate URL instead of having the additional question added. His rationale was that most colleges with non-credit application processes outside of using CCCApply as-is, are not having students self-identify, but rather they are guiding the student to the paper app or non-credit online process through a lab or other advisory session. Therefore, we should not rush into a self-identifying process at this time and just move forward with the rest of the proposal (i.e., the non-credit path of  questions and special residency-exempt status, etc.).

Also, this will allow Patty to work with the Ideas42 team (Harrison) to research the best approach and language for a question after engaging students via focus group, mock-ups, etc. 

The Workgroup committee approved this new approach.  

Next Steps: Patty to work with Harrison on whether self-identification would work for students and how best to implement that process.  Patty will also work with Harrison on a mock-up of the "path" in order to try it out with students.  

9.14.18 Workgroup Meeting:

  • Request to implement a new question on the Enrollment page (or the most appropriate place) to identify "non-credit" students.  
  • Workgroup sub-committee was tasked to move this forward ASAP.  
  • CCCapply Redesign Meeting Minutes- 091418.docx

See the shared Google doc notes from 9.14.18 Workgroup meeting:

10.11.18 Sub-Committee DiscussionZoom Chat transcript:
16:07:39 From Mitch Leahy : One thing we will need answered before we revise the app: if non-credit students do not have to complete residency, are they prevented from taking credit courses WITHOUT completing a credit application first?
16:10:25 From Alejandra Pena : Will this presentation be sent via email as well
16:10:37 From Mitch Leahy : Another thing- if we use the same app for both credit and non-credit, we need to give non-credit the ability to submit a credit app for the same term after they previously applied for non-credit.
16:12:03 From Mitch Leahy : If SIS systems are not prepared for credit and non-credit apps, credit students could be self selecting as non-credit students. Then, they could be enrolling in credit courses without having residency collected.
16:55:29 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Can that question be asked before the Ed Goal, so it can then filter the ed goal so it only displays non-credit ed goals?
16:57:10 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : I agree. The Y/N question needs to show for everyone.
17:06:20 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Ed goal won't work.
17:09:11 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Thanks, Patty!
17:09:36 From Alejandra Pena : Thank you
17:09:47 From Patty Donohue : Thank you ALL!

Confirm the questions that should and should NOT be displayed in each workflow path.

Per the sub-committee discussion on Thursday, October 11, the following pages could be removed completely for Non-Credit Path:  

  • Citizenship/Military
  • Residency

During the sub-committee meeting, we reviewed each page in the Standard Application and specifically discussed the questions that have been pegged to be removed (not confirmed) by the Workgroup.

  • They agreed that all questions on the Enrollment page should remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students (all applicants)
  • They strongly believe that all the questions on the Education page remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students.
  • They agreed that the Citizenship/Military page is totally related to residency and therefore could be removed from the Non-Credit path.
  • They agreed that the Residency page could be removed from the Non-Credit path.
  • They agree that there are several questions on the Needs & Interest page that could be removed.  
  • They agree that all questions on the Demographic Info page must remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students.

All questions to be removed or revised should be reviewed with Ideas42 team prior to implementation. 

Allow the Steering Committee to help to gather & approve these requirements, look for missing links, identify all the use cases, and explore all the implications and unanswered questions around the new AB3101 legislation, it's important that we hear from you to ensure we are combining your collective expertise before making this significant change to CCCApply. 

Sub-Committee Minutes: 10/11/18 Change Request


Thank you to everyone who attended the CCCApply Non-Credit meeting last Thursday, October 11.  (Please forward this to anyone that I missed who either attended or responded.)

Notes from Workgroup Meeting 10.26.18

Proposal to implement new "self-identifying" question  (Course Credit Status) was DECLINED.  See notes in the Sub-Committee Meeting Notes section below for details and Next Steps.   

APPROVED REQUIREMENTS:  Non-Credit Application Implementation

Feedback from Sub-Committee Members

<< F/U response from Leigh Ann Unger, Rio Hondo College - 10/11/18 >>


Thank you for your work on all of this. I know it isn’t an easy task and I want you to know we value you and the work that you do.

I have a few thoughts, take them or leave them, I’m just trying to think outside the box.

  • There was already a lot of “you can’t take that off, we use that” being said yesterday. We have all grown accustom to using the data that is on the application. We are all going to have to learn to change and it isn’t easy.

As I see it, we need to answer two questions when looking to remove a question from the application;

  1. Is it a mandated question; if yes, then it needs to stay, if not then go to question 2
  2. Can we identify the student and distinguish him/her from others without that specific information? If yes, we really don’t need the question, even though we may want to keep it.

I know we are in need of removing questions, but what about adding one that will help filter out the questions that are needed for different audiences? Something like:

  • What are your goals in the term for which you are applying?
    • Enrolling in noncredit course(s) to improve my skills and/or prepare myself for college level coursework
    • Enrolling in college credit course(s) while enrolled in high school or adult student
    • Enrolling in college credit course(s)               

This would not replace the Ed Goal question. That question would still appear for those who are going to take college credit courses.

When we are ready to go live with the new version of the application with the noncredit adjustments, I think it would be important to share that this is a temporary fix. That we will be looking into a separate noncredit application in the future. However, in the time allowed it was not possible to develop a new application.  

Leigh Ann

Leigh Ann Unger, MBA
Director of Admissions and Records/Registrar

<< End F/U response email >>

<< Feedback from Redesign Workgroup Committee >>
Craig Hayward, Bakersfield College: Other discussions:
Continue work on the Ed Goal Alignment filter to better serve colleges in identifying non-credit students and getting them on the appropriate Pathway
Encourage colleges to use the Major Category filter to better direct non-credit students to the appropriate Pathway

Supporting Documentation

April 2018: Response to AB3101 (before it passed)

Letter to Governor AB 3101 (Carrillo) - Request for Signature.pdf



More:  CCCApply Low-Hanging Fruit 2018 Slide deck

See pages, docs & sections dedicated to the /wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723714146 efforts 

 See "/wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723714146" summary and Google drive  for ongoing effort to support AB3101