Q&A from the Meeting Chat
Below are the comments, questions, and answers (where possible) from the 3/04 meeting Chat. Answers are provided in BLUE below.
16:02:28 From Dione & Luis : Patty, Non-Credit needs to be spelled without a hyphen: Noncredit
Noted. All official text and nomenclature will reference the proper spelling above: Noncredit. However, many of the internal documents that have already been published online (product information and implementation docs - if I change the document titles, I could break the links. Hopefully we can live with those misspelled documents
15:34:01 From Paulette Lino : how do I access the list of colleges with (Pilot Noncredit) URLs?
15:40:29 From Kyle Mack : CCCApply Noncredit Application URLs
Thank you, Kyle!
During the demo, a request was made to implement a different "Welcome" page for the Noncredit Application. Below are the comments during this discussion from the Chat.
16:27:34 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : A separate (Welcome) landing page would be very helpful.
15:33:16 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : I agree. I'd like some verbiage (on the Welcome page) that indicates it's a non-credit application.
15:39:12 From fong_fai : Agreed, especially in the case where a student had to apply twice during a term, once to the non-credit and then switch to a credit student. The landing page will clarify the application for the student.
16:28:10 From Monika Liu : I agree to have a separate landing page for Noncredit
16:29:41 From Morgan : = Noncredit
16:32:39 From fong_fai : I think we need to say "Noncredit Program Application"
15:58:27 From Morgan : I agree with Gerlie and Dione as if you are in the noncredit app it helps differentiate and removes confusion for the student. Those that have aspirations for credit still have to fill out a credit app anyway for residency and you can collect it there.
15:39:52 From Mitch Leahy : that depends on how your SIS is configured
15:40:13 From Mitch Leahy : You need to make sure that a non-credit doesn't enroll in credit if they complete a non-credit app. Otherwise... you will have an audit problem.
15:41:17 From Gerlie Jeltema : That's what I mean - from a policy perspective, if there are downstream impacts for how a student applied to the institution, then it should be clear which application the student is using.
I have added a change request to implement a unique landing page for the Noncredit Application. Please see the details above in the "Change Requests: "Must Have Features" section.
15:39:35 From Gerlie Jeltema : If a student made the mistake of applying via Non-Credit app because it was not clearly identified, does it prevent them from doing some things a regular student can do?
The Noncredit Application does not contain the Residency page or the Citizenship/Military page, and the first three questions on the Needs & Interests page have also been removed. The Submission Calculation Service - which calculates the applicant's "Residency Status" - is disabled in the Noncredit Application. In addition, the AB 540 Eligibility algorithm, the Financial Aid Eligibility algorithm, and the Ineligible for Admission calculation services are disabled in the Noncredit Application. This means that the information about whether the student is eligible for AB 540 benefits is not calculated and displayed on the "Special Links & Opportunities" page in the post-submission services process.
So - in answer to your question - Yes, if the student accidentally applies using the Noncredit Application, the college will not be able to determine their residency classification for the purposes of determining tuition, and the student will have to complete the Standard Application for the same term at the same college in order to fulfill the requirements of residency determination.
As discussed during the meeting, and as documented in the Noncredit Application information, the logic preventing a student from submitting more than one application for the same term at the same college has been lifted for transitioning from Noncredit to "for credit" (but not the other way around).
Extensive information about the Noncredit Application specifications, data fields changes, and student user experience, have been documented in the following documents:
Implementation & UAT Information
Product & Pilot Information
15:38:39 From Gerlie Jeltema : Is there a limitation as to what Non-Credit students can do versus regular students at most institutions that require that a student know in advance that they are entering a strictly Non-Credit application?
This is an excellent question that I would like to propose be included on our CCC Noncredit Online Application Survey (suggested name). It would be very helpful to have more information about all the different types of noncredit programs across our system, what each of them requires, and what information is provided to their students prior to applying.
15:51:12 From fong_fai : Do you plan to add condition criteria for each of the supplemental questions. It would be great if you can, so we can control who sees the questions even on the regular app?
Implementing conditional logic in the Supplemental Questions module is something that we have wanted to do for a very long time. Unfortunately the CCCApply budget keeps getting cut back and we have been forced to stretch our "no new features" maintenance budget as far as we can while continuing to meet our primary charter objective of providing a legally compliant online admission application for the California Community Colleges and the 2.5+ million users applying each year.
However, during last year's "Administrator 2.0 Upgrade" - our initial project plan included a complete rewrite to the Supplemental Questions module for the Standard & International Applications. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts and another unforeseen shift in charter focus, we were forced to reprioritize the scope of the Administrator upgrade project, and settle for a "feature parity" product upgrade and prioritize replacing the antiquated PhP-based application with a modern UI and Java backend - to ensure we maintained all of our existing features in the revision.
Nevertheless - we will continue to include (beg for ) requests for continuous improvement funding - including upgrading portions of the Administrator and Report Center - in our annual charter proposals and cross our fingers that we can make small strides in the upcoming years.
15:51:54 From Morgan : Does Spanish (translation) work now?
Unfortunately, the current version of Spanish hover help is still not working in this version of CCCApply. However, as mandated in AB 3101, we have begun gathering requirements for a CCCApply Redesign - including a new user interface with Spanish (international) translation that is mobile-phone friendly with superior support enhancements (chat capabilities and text messaging). At this time we do not have confirmation that our budget for FY2019-2020 will allow us to begin development - but we are working with a variety of stakeholders (under the guidance of the Chancellor's Office) on the comprehensive redesign specification in anticipation for funding approval. (Spanish translation is at the top of the list!)
15:52:09 From fong_fai : Would the download residency status be just blank?
15:53:34 From fong_fai : I see that that the residency status would be "N"
In the Noncredit Application, the Submission Calculation Service is disabled (this is the service that calculates the four areas of the Residency algorithm into a preliminary "residency status"); therefore, we have added a new data value to the Residency status field <res_status> - as well as the four residency area status fields. Please see all the changes to the data downloads and other data specifications here:
Also, the CCCApply Standard Application Data Dictionary v.2019.1 has been updated with all data changes in the Noncredit Application.
15:53:22 From Morgan : Can we edit the needs and interest to fit our student population and reduce the confusion on our most vulnerable population?
Unfortunately no, not in this version of CCCApply. However - one of the key design elements in our plan for the next version is to re-architect the backend of the application into a flexible, universal form engine, which would allow colleges to be able to customize questions, sections, and pages - to some extent. Let's hope we get the funding needed to more forward in this direction.
15:56:28 From Kyle Mack : Not having the option to use a different set of majors on the standard and non-credit apps will be a deal breaker for Coast Community Colleges.
This is our feeling, too, Kyle, and we anticipated this going into this pilot phase. Our hope is that we can work with you to deploy a feature that meets your needs. I think we have a proposal above that will work. See "Change Requests: "Must Have" Features above.
15:59:22 From fong_fai : Should we add non-credit status field and integrity flag 81 for the production roll out coming in a couple of weeks?
Great question, Fai. I would add those two new fields - and accommodate your business processes to acknowledge the new Residency Status and Area values specified - in your PILOT environment only through the end of this college pilot phase. We won't be officially releasing the Noncredit Application code to Production until the June release (June 28). The reason being - as we continue to make feature enhancements throughout this pilot phase, there will likely be code changes before the production release.
Please see the following to start testing in Pilot:
15:59:23 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Can non-credit be added as a major award_type? This would prevent the colleges from having to implement the major categories, and perhaps it would open up options to filter what's displayed in the major dropdown menu.
That's a good thought, but unfortunately I don't see that happening for this version of the Noncredit or Standard applications. The reason is - the award type field doesn't integrate anywhere in the application. It's not used at all now and would require a significant revision to implement that as a filter at this point.
16:10:13 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Patty, is this presentation/set of slides available online?
Yes. The CCCApply Noncredit Path - Pilot UAT Slides is available here.
16:11:18 From Gerlie Jeltema to Patty Donohue (Privately) : When a student applies using Non-Credit first, they can apply using the Credit app for the same term is what I heard. What happens if they apply for the Credit app first?
Yes, that is correct. We have lifted the restriction that is in place now for submitting more than one application to the same term at the same college specifically so a noncredit student who has submitted the Noncredit Application can also submit a Standard Application for the same term at the same college - if they need to.
However, the restriction holds for the other process. If a student submits a Standard Application - they will NOT be allowed to submit a Noncredit Application afterwards to the same term at the same college. The reason for this is that the Standard Application should have provided the college everything they need to enroll the student in noncredit. The only exception to this would be - if we implement the change to the Major/Program of Study field - allowing the noncredit application to have different majors or programs of study, the college may need to follow up with the student on which program they plan to enroll in within your noncredit program. Otherwise, they will have provided all the other required responses and shouldn't need to complete a Noncredit application after submitting a Standard app.
16:16:57 From Michael Quiaoit to Patty Donohue (Privately) : CO is fine with clarifying any questions, please send them to me and Elena Alcala, so Natalie Wagner can include the answers in the Residency Overview document.
Thank you, Michael Q! As discussed in our meeting, we will gather and review a set of concerns and issues that the group would to submit to the Chancellor's Office for a Legal Opinion or other official response. We will be working on this list in the coming week and will submit the list to you and Elena as soon as possible. Thanks again.
16:18:41 From Dione & Luis : When does the noncredit app go live?
16:20:27 From Merrie Wales : Dione, In Pilot the Non-Credit app is available now
So the Noncredit Application is live now in the Pilot environment. Please see the Implementation information - provided several times above - for implementation and setup instructions.
The plan is to work on the remaining "must have" requirements and any other bug fixes identified over the course of this 12 week "pilot project" (not to confuse that with our Pilot environment, sorry) - with plans to deploy the final version to Production - for all colleges - in June (28th).
One suggestion I will discuss with the pilot committee is - after the feature enhancements are completed and deployed - we may decide to allow this group of colleges to beta test the final version in Production with students prior to the June release. That would give us some much needed feedback prior to the production launch. I think this will depend on how quickly we can identify issues and get them resolved over the upcoming weeks.
16:21:09 From Shontel Corona : I noticed North Orange Continuing Education (NOCE) is missing from the CCCApply Non-Credit Application URLs list. Fullerton and Cypress college are listed, but not NOCE 863
I need to look into this, Shontel, because as far as I understand we do not have any "district" applications. All CCCApply applications are configured to the college MIS code. It's possible that North Orange has stood up some form of District front page, and I know it's possible for districts to combine the download files at the district level, but as far as students applying through CCCApply, all applications are based on the "college" MIS code.
NOTE: If we have made an exception for North Orange - or if there is a third college MIS code that I am unaware of - then my apologies. You can construct your URL by replacing the three XXX's in the URL template with your MIS code. However, when I tested the MIS code you listed - I did not see a valid application. Let's chat through Support.
16:35:44 From fong_fai : Could we use the concept of area and apply to the noncredit program and the program becomes the different noncredit program
Please IM me privately, Fai. I need some clarification on this question. Thanks!
16:44:50 From Anna Salazar - EAST : In my opinion a survey should be sent out
Excellent! Thank you, Anna. We all agreed that a survey is needed. Please provide some question suggestions to the committee so we can get moving on that survey.