Non-Credit Sub-Committee Meeting Minutes & Discussions - Fall 2018

Sub-Committee Meetings

NOTE: These meeting notes are for reference purposes ONLY. They contain discussion details and proposal specs for a previous draft of the Non-Credit Workflow that as DECLINED by the CCCCO, CCCApply Redesign Workgroup on 10.26.18.

Meeting Date

Notes

10.26.18 Workgroup meeting

The proposal to add the new "Course Credit Status" question to the Enrollment page, asking students to "self-identify" their course credit status (credit vs. non-credit) was DECLINED by the committee

After presenting the proposal (see full copy of the proposal here: /wiki/spaces/PD/pages/808648705 - the subcommittee heard feedback from the participants.

First, Omid and the Workgroup approved the proposal and we were discussing options for the question language and additional requirements, then Tim Calhoon suggested an alternative iterative solution to implement the "path" of questions and residency status changes, etc. via a separate URL instead of having the additional question added. His rationale was that most colleges with non-credit application processes outside of using CCCApply as-is, are not having students self-identify, but rather they are guiding the student to the paper app or non-credit online process through a lab or other advisory session. Therefore, we should not rush into a self-identifying process at this time and just move forward with the rest of the proposal (i.e., the non-credit path of questions and special residency-exempt status, etc.).

Also, this will allow Patty to work with the Ideas42 team (Harrison) to research the best approach and language for a question after engaging students via focus group, mock-ups, etc.

The Workgroup committee approved this new approach.

Next Steps: Patty to work with Harrison on whether self-identification would work for students and how best to implement that process. Patty will also work with Harrison on a mock-up of the "path" in order to try it out with students.

9.14.18 Workgroup Meeting:

Request to implement a new question on the Enrollment page (or the most appropriate place) to identify "non-credit" students.
Workgroup sub-committee was tasked to move this forward ASAP.
CCCapply Redesign Meeting Minutes- 091418.docx

See the shared Google doc notes from 9.14.18 Workgroup meeting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10b6RYMhoLnLPMs2axePDrYZfoYhsPYeKBPS9BsqZ1fo/edit

10.11.18 Sub-Committee Discussion

Zoom Chat transcript:
16:07:39 From Mitch Leahy : One thing we will need answered before we revise the app: if non-credit students do not have to complete residency, are they prevented from taking credit courses WITHOUT completing a credit application first?
16:10:25 From Alejandra Pena : Will this presentation be sent via email as well
16:10:37 From Mitch Leahy : Another thing- if we use the same app for both credit and non-credit, we need to give non-credit the ability to submit a credit app for the same term after they previously applied for non-credit.
16:12:03 From Mitch Leahy : If SIS systems are not prepared for credit and non-credit apps, credit students could be self selecting as non-credit students. Then, they could be enrolling in credit courses without having residency collected.
16:55:29 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Can that question be asked before the Ed Goal, so it can then filter the ed goal so it only displays non-credit ed goals?
16:57:10 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : I agree. The Y/N question needs to show for everyone.
17:06:20 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Ed goal won't work.
17:09:11 From Ali Salinas (Riverside City) : Thanks, Patty!
17:09:36 From Alejandra Pena : Thank you
17:09:47 From Patty Donohue : Thank you ALL!

Confirm the questions that should and should NOT be displayed in each workflow path.

Per the sub-committee discussion on Thursday, October 11, the following pages could be removed completely for Non-Credit Path:

Citizenship/Military
Residency

During the sub-committee meeting, we reviewed each page in the Standard Application and specifically discussed the questions that have been pegged to be removed (not confirmed) by the Workgroup.

They agreed that all questions on the Enrollment page should remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students (all applicants)
They strongly believe that all the questions on the Education page remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students.
They agreed that the Citizenship/Military page is totally related to residency and therefore could be removed from the Non-Credit path.
They agreed that the Residency page could be removed from the Non-Credit path.
They agree that there are several questions on the Needs & Interest page that could be removed.
They agree that all questions on the Demographic Info page must remain and SHOULD be collected for both Credit and Non-Credit students.

All questions to be removed or revised should be reviewed with Ideas42 team prior to implementation.

Allow the Steering Committee to help to gather & approve these requirements, look for missing links, identify all the use cases, and explore all the implications and unanswered questions around the new AB3101 legislation, it's important that we hear from you to ensure we are combining your collective expertise before making this significant change to CCCApply.

Sub-Committee Minutes: 10/11/18 Change Request

NOTE: These meeting notes are for reference purposes ONLY. They contain discussion details and proposal specs for a previous draft of the Non-Credit Workflow that as DECLINED by the CCCCO, CCCApply Redesign Workgroup on 10.26.18.

Hello,

Thank you to everyone who attended the CCCApply Non-Credit meeting last Thursday, October 11. (Please forward this to anyone that I missed who either attended or responded.)

Click here to expand...

Hello,

Thank you to everyone who attended the CCCApply Non-Credit meeting last Thursday, October 11. (Please forward this to anyone that I missed who either attended or responded.)

The purpose of this email is to provide a recap of everything that was discussed during the meeting, and request your feedback and acknowledgment of the detailed change requirements captured to implement a "Non-credit Path" in the CCCApply Standard application in order to comply with the new legislation passed in Assembly Bill 3101 - which exempts non-credit students from residency determination and collects only the data required by federal, state, and other necessary requirements at the time of application. The revision to include this new residency exempt path also requires other changes that would allow the student to re-apply to the same term, same college - if the student changes status and then decides to enroll in "for credit" courses.

Request for Your Acknowledgment of Change Requirements

Due to the scope of this proposed change to CCCApply, and given the tight timeline/schedule we are trying to meet, we need your continued help in the following ways:

Review the Change Requirements that are outlined below and reply back to this email with an acknowledgment that they have been captured and documented accurately per the 10/11 meeting discussion;
1. Please don't hesitate to call out any issues, omissions, or errors per your recollection
Review the Need Requirements section below and provide feedback on the three main items that need confirmed language and functionality.

Course Credit Status question
Confirmation pop-up box
Help pop-up boxes
Additional requirements & considerations

The goal here is to ensure I have accurately captured the requirements that were discussed throughout the course of the meeting. We covered a lot of ground; especially with regards to the specific questions that should or shouldn't be removed from the Non-Credit Path. These will be reviewed again in a second meeting (watch for meeting request/invite).

CHANGE REQUIREMENTS

NEED REQUIREMENTS

ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS & CONSIDERATIONS

Release Timeline / Schedule

The anticipated release timeline for this response to AB3101 (Non-credit Path and other streamlining changes) is early March 2019. The exact release date has not be confirmed, but it will be a Friday night as typical of all major CCCApply releases. The first draft of these business and technical requirements need to be approved by Friday, October 26; the second draft scheduled to be confirmed by November 10.

October 26 - First draft review by Chancellor's Office CCCApply Workgroup
(We also need your acknowledgment of these requirements by this date. If you can respond sooner - especially regarding the Non-Credit question language (see below) that would be ideal.)

December 7 - Iterative release (not related to non-credit issue) but may include some back-end preparations

March 1, 2019 (TBD) - Implementation of the Non-Credit solution

The goal here is to ensure I have accurately captured the requirements that were discussed throughout the course of the meeting. We covered alot of ground; especially with regards to the specific questions that should or shouldn't be removed from the Non-Credit Path.

Thank you so much for your participation in last week's meeting. We appreciate any additional feedback and participation you are willing to provide to move this forward.

Non-Credit Sub-Committee Meeting - October 11, 2018

On Thursday, October 11, 2018, approximately 18 California community college staff members - from non-credit, admissions, and research divisions - met to discuss and gather requirements for modifying CCCApply to comply with AB3101 - which now exempts non-credit students from California community college residency determination and only requires the collection of data that is required by federal government, state law, and other necessary information required to identify students.

NOTE: The sub-committee is a sub-set of the CCCApply Redesign Workgroup, which meets bi-weekly under the direction of Vice Chancellor Omid Pourzanjani, for the purpose of providing feedback and gathering requirements for the revision of CCCApply in direct response to the new legislation passed in AB3101.

Meeting Objectives & Flow of Discussion

Review objectives of the CCCApply Redesign Workgroup project and the timeline expectations expressed by the CCCCO.
- Review AB3101 language and implications on A&R to exempt non-credit students from residency determination
- Revise CCCApply to support students seeking to enroll exclusively in non-credit courses
- Streamline the number of questions in CCCApply for all students to remove questions that are not required at the time of application
Review & discuss a proposal to create two unique workflow paths within the existing CCCApply standard application: Credit vs. Non-Credit "paths" using skip logic
Review & discuss how to support students transitioning from Non-credit to Credit status within existing CCCApply application
Review & discuss proposal to streamline CCCApply Standard Application required questions for all students regardless of the workflow path chosen

Declined: Proposal to use the Education Goal question to help identify non-credit students

A proposal was presented to the group asking for feedback on using the Education Goal field response options to help trigger a new "non-credit status" question and data field that would identify/qualify the applicant's intention to enroll in either 1) credit courses or 2) non-credit courses based on the ed goal they selected. The ideas was to look at the existing Ed Goal response options to see if they could be revised and/or re-ordered in the dropdown menu, and based on the option selected, display a new question that would confirm whether they intended to enroll in non-credit courses or not. This suggestion also proposed a hyperlink to trigger a "help pop-up box" to clarify the Ed Goal response options.

This proposal to use the Education Goal field was unanimously rejected by the participants that attended the meeting, citing multiple reasons why using the student's self-reported response would not work for determining the applicant's Credit vs Non-Credit enrollment status.

The existing response options do not include clear options to determine the student's intention for course enrollment in the term being applied for.
Feedback from students is that the existing response options are too long, too complicated, and they don't read them carefully. Responses tend to be random and uninformed.
The existing response options would need to be shortened, re-worded, and re-ordered into logical groups if these were to be used in identifying the student's credit vs. non-credit status; and that would need to be approved by MIS.

For reference only: Notes regarding Non-Credit Grading & Tuition from Mitch Leahy, SRJC

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See Title V - 55022, 55023 (see Chapter 6, Subchapter 1 )

§ 55021. Grading Policies.

(a) The governing board of each community college district shall establish a uniform grading policy for all colleges within the district. The policy shall be based on sound academic principles and be consistent with the requirements of this chapter.

(b) The grading policy shall require that all work in all degree-applicable and nondegree-applicable credit courses shall be graded in accordance with a grading system adopted by the governing board consistent with section 55023.

(c) The grading policy may provide for award of grades in noncredit courses, including courses which are part of a high school diploma program or may be accepted for high school credit by a high school.

Note: Authority cited: Sections 66700 and 70901, Education Code. Reference: Sections 70901 and 70902, Education Code.

§ 55023. Academic Record Symbols and Grade Point Average.

Q&A References

Q. Do I need a Certificate of Residence to register for a noncredit course? A. No. However, you will need photo identification other than a passport.

Q. Do I get units for noncredit classes? A. No.

Q.

Q. Do I get grades for noncredit classes? A. Yes. Upon completion of a course, students will receive a grade of pass or no pass.

Q. Can I enroll in a noncredit class and later transfer that course towards a credit certificate? A. No.

Q. How much does a noncredit certificate cost? A. There is no tuition for noncredit courses. However, a few courses include a fee for materials provided to students. Students are also responsible for the purchase of books and supplies.

Q. Do I need to apply for admission to the college? A. For noncredit courses, admission to the college as a credit student is not required. There is a short form for noncredit admission.

Title 5 = 55023

Notes from Workgroup Meeting 10.26.18

Proposal to implement new "self-identifying" question (Course Credit Status) was DECLINED. See notes in the Sub-Committee Meeting Notes section below for details and Next Steps.

APPROVED REQUIREMENTS: Non-Credit Application Implementation

Feedback from Sub-Committee Members

NOTE: These meeting notes are for reference purposes ONLY. They contain discussion details and proposal specs for a previous draft of the Non-Credit Workflow that as DECLINED by the CCCCO, CCCApply Redesign Workgroup on 10.26.18.

<< F/U response from Leigh Ann Unger, Rio Hondo College - 10/11/18 >>

Patty,

Thank you for your work on all of this. I know it isn’t an easy task and I want you to know we value you and the work that you do.

I have a few thoughts, take them or leave them, I’m just trying to think outside the box.

There was already a lot of “you can’t take that off, we use that” being said yesterday. We have all grown accustom to using the data that is on the application. We are all going to have to learn to change and it isn’t easy.

As I see it, we need to answer two questions when looking to remove a question from the application;

Is it a mandated question; if yes, then it needs to stay, if not then go to question 2
Can we identify the student and distinguish him/her from others without that specific information? If yes, we really don’t need the question, even though we may want to keep it.

I know we are in need of removing questions, but what about adding one that will help filter out the questions that are needed for different audiences? Something like:

What are your goals in the term for which you are applying?
- Enrolling in noncredit course(s) to improve my skills and/or prepare myself for college level coursework
- Enrolling in college credit course(s) while enrolled in high school or adult student
- Enrolling in college credit course(s)

This would not replace the Ed Goal question. That question would still appear for those who are going to take college credit courses.

When we are ready to go live with the new version of the application with the noncredit adjustments, I think it would be important to share that this is a temporary fix. That we will be looking into a separate noncredit application in the future. However, in the time allowed it was not possible to develop a new application.

Leigh Ann

Leigh Ann Unger, MBA
Director of Admissions and Records/Registrar

<< End F/U response email >>

<< Feedback from Redesign Workgroup Committee >>

Craig Hayward, Bakersfield College: Other discussions:

Continue work on the Ed Goal Alignment filter to better serve colleges in identifying non-credit students and getting them on the appropriate Pathway

Encourage colleges to use the Major Category filter to better direct non-credit students to the appropriate Pathway

Supporting Documentation

April 2018: Response to AB3101 (before it passed)

Letter to Governor AB 3101 (Carrillo) - Request for Signature.pdf

/wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723812439

/wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723779690

More: CCCApply Low-Hanging Fruit 2018 Slide deck

See pages, docs & sections dedicated to the /wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723714146 efforts

See "/wiki/spaces/OPENAPPLY/pages/723714146" summary and Google drive for ongoing effort to support AB3101